一只包包需要具备哪些特质，才有资格叫作IT bag？
够多时尚名人拿它拍照、够常在Instagram上看到不同照片tag它、够容易断货、够常被包色……这些都只是小菜一碟，对我来说，最强的IT bag得够经典、够有辨识度，就连相隔十个箭步的距离，只是轻轻一瞥，我都能立刻喊出设计师的名字。
翻开厚厚一本时尚史，能自称IT bag的包款数量并不多，而它们大部分都来自米兰、巴黎等欧洲国家的老时装屋品牌，「大」设计师顶着「大」光环、博取「大」版面、赢得「大」买气，听起来合理到不行，就跟滚雪球的道理一样。不过你注意到了吗？我是说「大部分」。
BOYY于2004年创立，来自加拿大和泰国的银色夫妻档Jesse Dorsey与Wannasiri Kongman，以极具标志性的「粗皮带方釦包」，短时间内获得全球时尚狂热分子的疯狂爱戴，街拍潮人为了拍照不撞包，纷纷选择着用当时在欧美地区仍属小众的BOYY，想不到在极强辨识度和极高曝光度的双重效应加乘之下，品牌声誉从此一飞冲天，两人更因此双双入选泰国时尚界史上最具影响力人物的Top 30。
究竟小小一只包，背后藏有多大的创作学问？来自不同文化背景的Jesse和Wannasiri，当初为何会在设计「方釦包」上达成共识？跟着Wazaiii的脚步，一同前往BOYY位于米兰、绝美时髦的Showroom兼自家客厅，向夫妻兼工作搭档的两人取本时尚经！
（文末附上英文访谈属性/ English version of this interview is down below.）
「Jesse来自加拿大蒙特娄，Wannasiri来自泰国曼谷，BOYY在纽约时装周引起热潮，为何最终选择将Showroom落脚至米兰？」
Jesse/ 『这是个很好的问题，因为其实我们就住在楼上，哈哈！大概两年前，我们兴起了到巴黎拓展品牌规模的念头。接着我花上整整一年，只为了寻找最完美的位址，当我第一眼看到外面这座庭院时，我知道，就是它了，当然一年当中会有四天，这个地方会被拿来当作BOYY的Showroom，但大多数的时候，这里是我们宽敞又明亮的私人客厅。』
Jesse/ 『在我整顿整座空间前，上一次内部改造是在1973年，由一位米兰的粗野主义建筑师着手设计（Wazaiii小教室：粗野主义即一种现代建筑流派，主要以不修边幅的钢筋混凝土刻意打造沉重粗躁的视觉张力）。我很喜欢他留下的那些，极具现代感又有点怪异的空间元素，不过我需要一个「新门面」，所以是的，我认为我参与的后期装修部分，的确让整体风韵更靠近了BOYY以及我们的风格一些。』
「您会以这里任何装饰性的物件，好比角落那只「玉石雕塑」，做为设计包包的灵感吗？我认为石料和包包非常相衬！」
Jesse/ 『Umm……Well……会的，老实说，我们最近有一些关于石料和包包结合的设计雏形，到时推出后，你们可以期待看看成品是否符合期待，哈哈！（Wazaiii编辑：这个伏笔真是埋得大又深啊！）』
Wannasiri/ 『这其实是我的点子。我曾经有一条非常喜欢的古着皮带，我觉得它夸张的方釦总能完美妆点我的穿搭，所以当时我想，我也要有一颗长这样的包，因为市场上找不到，后来索性就自己设计出第一款Sample，原因就这么简单。那时Jesse和我看到经典又极有结构感的方釦出现在Sample上时，我承认，一开始它们有些粗糙、不那么完美，但我总有预感它将会……』
Jesse/ 『它一定会中。』
Wannasiri/ 『没错，果然中了，哈哈！』
Jesse/ 『时尚有其高潮与低潮，当然设计师的心绪也随之起伏。我记得在2015年，我们曾停下脚步、认真思考BOYY的「品牌哲学」，我们在纽约创立品牌时，每隔六个月就必须推出新的「Something」，这指的不止是设计，我们还得以这个「Something」为荣，一切的潜规则让我们匆忙到仿佛在跑步机上不断加速，到最后，我们失去了设计本身的趣味。后来我们发现，其实我们的销售额主要是仰赖零售、而非买手的批发，这代表「消费者喜欢的是BOYY的本质，迎合主流市场的趋势并未奏效」，因此我想，与其每六个月就推出12到15种不同风格的新包包，我们更想做的是，创造「1种」更具辨识度、更历久弥新的经典包款。』
Jesse/ 『非常幸运的，我们做到了。自从皮带方釦的点子问世之后，我们仍然推出了许多其他系列，不过「方釦包」仍然是我们的主线，也是消费者最能产生共鸣的产品。我觉得一个设计师是否成功，关键不在你能丢出几百万个新点子，而是消费者是否能够不看品牌，一眼就能认出这是你的设计。』
Jesse/ 『嗯……有时候她会觉得我的灵感很无趣，相对亦然，品牌现在主要由我操刀，不过我会说，方釦系列是Wannasiri和我的集大成，她有她源源不绝、翻玩面料及灵感的创新想法，我则是以较为实际的思考逻辑加以落实。当然，我们并非总能附和彼此，但双人合作的最大收穫就是，我们学会尊重彼此的想法，而且意识到时间总是向前推进，意见不合不代表世界末日，谁都没必要挟冤记仇。』
「以夫妻身分一起工作的感觉是？（甜笑）」
Wannasiri/ 『感觉……感觉糟透了，哈哈！（向左一看，幸好老公没变脸）跟另外一个人一起打理一个品牌，你必须认真花时间和他相处，理解他的个性和做事习惯。我会说和Jesse共事的最大好处是，我可以直接说出最真实的意见，但你也知道，我们不可能无时无刻都认同彼此的建议，而当有任何一方非常坚持某个概念时，我们会妥协。』
Jesse/ 『以夫妻的身分工作，让我们可以一起成长、一起藉由旅行增广见闻……』
Wannasiri/ 『一起吸收、接触新鲜的人事物……』
Jesse/ 『一起看世界。』
（Wazaiii编辑：OK，这一连串的默契接词真是始料未及）
Wannasiri/ 『大概是因为我们大多数的时间都待在一起、体验相同的生活模式，我总觉得，当我的脑袋里蹦出某些新点子时，Jesse同时也会，非常有趣！比方说，几年前我们有了第一个孩子，那时Jesse和我都非常着迷于儿童的读物和玩具，某天我们惊觉对方也有相同的灵感，索性就让灵感驰骋，就在两季前，我们创造了一个新的包款系列，名为「TOYS 玩具」。』
Jesse/ 『当时我们的儿子才一岁大，正逢最可爱的年纪，他玩具上出现的正方形和三角形，竟然就不自觉的成为我们的创作灵感，看到那些童趣的图形与线条和BOYY的经典方釦摆在一起，总能让我们想起和宝贝儿子的美好回忆，同时又相当时髦。』
「所以，可以说是打造这么一座时尚帝国背后的秘密，就是您们分享生活，并把任何有趣的点子放到设计中，这么简单？」
Jesse/ 『没错。BOYY反映了Wannasiri跟我的成长，因此，如果追溯到2006年，你可以发现品牌的确正在进化，我们从来就不自我定型，「这就是我们的消费结构、我们必须忠于这个定价、这群人才是我们的主力受众……」我们从来不管这些，因为我们相信品牌在改变的同时，消费者亦然。当然，某些企业底下的品牌必须死守部分原则，这我尊重也理解，不过对BOYY而言，反其道而行反而更通行无阻，不仰赖主流的商业模式，是我们保持热忱的诀窍，也是消费者对我们不断感到新鲜的不二法门。』
「您们大多都如何拾获设计灵感？好比说，BOYY最新的系列灵感竟是来自『外带包装』？」
Wannasiri/ 『我们真的很爱吃中国料理，尤其是「点心」，当我们还在纽约时，一个礼拜会有好几餐是在很不错的中国餐馆中解决。来到巴黎之后，我们实在是太想念中国料理了，有一天我看着我们的最新包款，心想：「天啊！这也太像馄饨了吧！」接着我看向另外一款包，它让我想起包着糯米鸡的荷叶，于是你猜怎么着？我告诉Jesse，这个系列就该被命名为「Take-away」，就这么简单。（Wazaiii编辑：哈哈哈哈哈！希望将来可以出现萝蔔糕包或菠萝油包，我要买！）有时候，规律的日常有可能会被昇华成精彩的创作概念，这一季，我们希望打造中式餐馆的迷人氛围，时尚其实不需要太深奥的设计理念，有时天外飞来一笔的鬼点子，比什么抽丝剥茧都精彩。』
「如今您们的商品在全球的销售平台上，都相当受部落客、编辑与时尚迷们的追捧、爱用，在这波病毒式的热潮降临之前，您们是否曾经试图做过任何尝试或努力？」
Wannasiri/ 『不，完全没有，这一切来得太快，快到我还是无法相信发生了什么事。很多人说我们的包包很上相，当时我想，的确，部落客们很喜欢用我们的包包拍穿搭，但这股热潮迟早会退烧，不过没有，直到现在，人们还是不断的在Instagram上拍我们的包包、支持我们的设计！』
Jesse/ 『我觉得比起其他欧美及亚洲品牌，我们算是略有优势，因为我们在Instagram和Twitter上都比别人抢先一步，另外，在社群媒体的活跃度上，亚洲可以说是领先了美国整整至少一年，而其中又属曼谷跻身社群使用之冠。这份优势和我们的公关操作默默形成了一条连结，老实说，我们从来就没有和任何公关公司正式合作过，不知为何，他们遵守典型的行销程序，却无法在BOYY看到绩效，反倒是我们倾听自己的声音，才更迅速的登上国际舞台，Instagram的盛行真的帮了我们许多。』
Wannasiri/ 『我仍然不敢相信每天都会有人Tag我们的Instagram帐户，每天。若要深究原因，我想，Instagram有种魔力，某个偶像拿了某只包，人们就也想拥有他，这就是BOYY成功的原因，因为就连我，也常常感受到这种强烈的购物慾。』
Wannasiri/ 『BOY, B, O, Y, 其实是我在泰国的小名，在我来到纽约、认识Jesse之后，我都跟别人用Wannasiri，也就是我的真名自我介绍，除了他，没人知道我的小名。』
Jesse/ 『当我们开始创业之后，我们希望可以将品牌哲学巩固为「现代中性」，接着我们突然想到我太太的小名，但是我们总不能替「BOY」注册商标，毕竟它已是个现有的英文单字，所以我们决定在后面多加一个「Y」，藉此强化品牌精神，其实命名原因仅是如此而已。』
Wannasiri/ 『我们也会用男性的名字来替包包取名，比如Karl、Bobbie、Devon等等，毕竟当时其他品牌都是以女性名字来取名。』
「未来BOYY是否会将品牌触角延伸至设计『服装』系列？」
Jesse/ 『我能保证，我们一定会的，但就算我们有这个念头，也不代表明年的发布会上一切就能水到渠成，时尚对我们来说，是一种相当自然的演进过程，像我前面提到的，我们并不想过得太赶，况且，多设计服装对于一个包件品牌而言，等同于是多创立一间公司耶！』
Wannasiri/ 『对我们而言，现阶段我们想好好专注在发展新鞋履的系列上，希望每件单品都很强势、很有辨识度，当我们脚步放得越慢，才能步步都踏得扎实。』
「我非常欣赏您们在变化多端、高速紧张的时尚产业中，找到自己的慢活步调。」
Jesse/ 『谢谢你。对我们来说，小小的成功就够让人满足了，我们不必仰赖任何店家、消费者、品牌或买手，我们做自己，愈是放慢培育过程、采收的成果就预示肥美丰厚。我此生做过最正确的决定，就是不跟随时尚潮流，头也不回的做好自己。』
后记
所以说，也不是每个大红大紫的人，初衷都是功成名就。
和两人碰头后，令Wazaiii编辑最诧异的是，原来他们的成功仅是无心插柳。不过当一般人通常会选择打了蛇、干脆随棍上时，Jesse和Wannasiri反倒停下脚步，重新思考品牌在嗜血又急促的时尚战场中，定位何在？乐趣何在？
不急着赚饱银两，而是任心灵富有，不抢着赶上潮流，而是自带风潮、任人跟随。
我特别喜欢Jesse和Wannasiri之间的氛围，很微妙。他们并肩而坐，中间却仿佛隔了层清亮雪花，偶尔炙热的凝视可以融化它，但大多时候，两人的互动相当具有灵气，不熟识他们的旁人，只得被阻绝在外。
整段访问中，对于传说中的「IT bag」两人只字未提，或许对他们来说，那个IT不是指Inevitable（不可避免），而是Immortal（永世不朽）。
（English Version）
Coming from Montreal and Bangkok, gaining reputation in New York, why do you end up locating your showroom in Paris?
It’s a good question because we actually live upstairs, haha! We had the idea of moving here and extending our business scale about 2 year ago and it’s for sure a new chapter for us. Then I spent an entire year trying to find a perfect place, at the first glance of this garden. I just couldn’t say no. Yeah this is gonna be a showroom 4 times a year, but mostly, it’s our giant living room.
So you did the renovation on your own as well?
I renovated the entire space since the last time anyone had done it was in 1973 by a Milanese brutalist architect. I was fascinated by the modernistic and strange interior designs, but I needed a major new face. In a nutshell, I’d say it’s worthy investment.
Would you put any of your decorating pieces, like the “jade annex” over there, into your bag designs as an inspiration? I think stones flatter bags so well!
Umm……Well……Yes. To be honest, we have had several ideas encompassing stones recently, so you guys can be expecting some up to your aesthetics, haha!
For certain! As for your designs, firstly, why the “buckles”?
It’s like my thing, my secret crush. I used to own a vintage belt which has always been my favorite, I love how it garnished my look so I really wanted to have a bag with a buckle on it. Then I made it my own, plain and simple. Jesse and I thought, ok, let’s put a classic and structured buckle on a bag, and everything came after. Our first samples were rough and unsophisticated, but I could just feel that “This is it!” and it’s gonna be……
Something.
Yeah. And it really does now.
Got it. It’s not easy for a brand to find their iconic look, and you stuck with your buckle. How do you feel about it?
You know, fashion is like a wave with its ups and downs. At a moment, we took a pause and went through our “brand philosophy” in 2015. When we started our brand in New York, we had to present something in every 6 months. It meant not only should we design, but we ha to have faith in it, which was like running on a treadmill with everything in rush. Then, we lost the fun of what we were doing. At that time, we discovered that our success lied in our retail stores instead of on the wholesale, and I was like “People love us for being us, so let’s just do things in OUR way.” In result, we knew we had to come up with something “iconic” and “timeless” rather than trying to turn out 12 to 15 “new” styles every 6 months. It just doesn’t work like that.
And then it worked!
Yeah fortunately it did! Ever since we’ve introduced several new styles but our buckle collection is definitely our staple and what people can recognize and resonate with. So we learned that as a designer, it’s not about you’re capable of throwing out millions of new ideas; however, it all comes down to what you can produce to have customers remember you.
Who took charge in the design apartment or is it always a mutual consensus?
Well……Sometimes I am inspired and want to try something that might bores her, and vice versa. Maybe I’m still taking more charge but I feel like the buckle collection is the culmination of both of us. It was like she had the ideas of how to utilize certain materials and I have my methods to executing them practically. We don’t always agree on everything, that’s for sure, but I guess time always moves forward, and there’s no need to hold grudge like it’s the end of the world.
How does it feel working as a couple?
It’s……(pause) It’s horrible. HAHA! It’s like, you have to learn how to work with another person and be willing to spend time with him/her running a brand whatsoever. I’d say the positive thing of working with Jesse is that I can just spit out my honest opinions, but when it comes to either one of us insisting on certain concepts, we compromise.
Yeah. Working as a couple enables us to grow together, to travel together.
To absorb new things together.
And see the world together.
Sometimes I feel like when I have some ideas in mind, he’d have the same, probably because we ‘ve seen and experienced things together. For example, when we had kids years ago and we were both so into the children books and toys, we instantly let the ideas flow and created a collection named “TOYS” two seasons ago.
We took our son’s toys when he was 1 year old as the inspiration. We love how the squares and triangles interact with our buckle and become sort of reminiscence of our memories.
So both of you share life and put what’s interesting to you into your design, that’s the secret to your empire?
Yeah, BOYY really reflects the revolution of Wannasiri and I growing and aging together; consequently, if you traced from 2006, it’s obviously a evolution among the brand. We both agree that we should never pigeonhole ourselves like “This is our demographic. We need to stick to this price point and we need to stick to focus on this sort of customers.” We don’t do that, because we’re evolving as people and our products are gonna evolve. I know for some corporate brands that have to stick to these rules but as for us, doing things in the opposite works the best. This is how we stay interested in what we’re doing and keep our customers interested.
How do you guys get your inspiration most of the time For instance, your latest collection is inspired by “take-away bags”?
We just love Chinese food, especially “Dim-Sum”. When we were in New York, we used to dine in a nice Chinese restaurant several times a week. We enjoy and miss Chinese food so much, and one day, we saw our new bags and I was like “It looks like Won-Ton!” and then there’s another bag called lotus for it remind me so much of the lotus leaf rapped with the sticky rice so much! And I was like “You know what? I’m gonna name this collection after take-away.” It’s just that simple. Sometimes our daily routines may be elevated into our fantasy concepts, and in this season, we’d like to create the ambience of a Chinese lounge. It just came out of the blue.
Now your products are phenomenon on different platforms, is this what you intended to do before everything goes viral?
No! Not at all. I still can’t believe what has happened. Some people told me that or bags are photogenic, and I’d be like “Ok, bloggers do take pictures of our bags, but it’s gonna slow down sooner or later, the trend.” But, it didn’t. People still take photos of our collections now!
I think we had slightly more advantages because we were quick on Instagram, quicker than lots of brands in Asia, so is Twitter. Plus, Asia was at least a year ahead America regarding social media, everything was fast in Bangkok, especially apps. And then it all connects with our own PR, by that I mean, we’ve never really had a PR agency to work with. The typical procedures of the PR agencies just never work with us for some reasons, and we always succeed much better on our own. Instagram just expedites our career.
You know how often people tag our Instagram account? Everyday. Besides, Instagram has sort of a magic, even for me. When people see a bag held by an icon on Instagram, they want the bag too! I guess this also help us along our ways.
Why do you name your brand “BOYY”?
Boy, B, O, Y, is my nickname back in Thailand. And when I met Jesse in New York, I introduced myself to everyone with my real name, Wannasiri. So no one except for him knows my nickname.
When we started everything, we reinforced that our brand philosophy is towards the masculine modernity. And nickname popped up while we were discussing, and there’s no way we could trademark “BOY” for it being an existing vocabulary. So we just added a second Y to signify our brand. That’s it.
We also name our bag after some male names like Karl or Bobbie.
Would you expand your territories by designing clothing in the future?
Clothing? I’m sure we would one day, but not like everything would be on board next year. We don’t want to rush it even though it’s a natural evolution. It’s almost like starting a new company!
For us, right now we’re focusing on our shoe collections. We want every pieces to be strong and recognizable, so we have to take it slow and solid.
I like the way you guys remain self-composed within the fast, tense world, especially in the fashion industry.
Thank you. As I said, we share little success and we’re content with it. We don’t rely on certain stores, people, brands or buyers. We’re just being ourselves, acting slow in the big, fast world. For me, this is the best decision I’ve ever made.
延伸阅读：
｜Wazaiii编辑部提案｜我都吃这些「怀旧零食」长大的……你呢？
药物与音乐之间─迷幻摇滚
｜Wazaiii城市探索系列｜从精品店的策展 看纽约SoHo区的文化艺术底蕴
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